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Lorien Stable: Trainer's Notes
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What could he be hurting himself on???

 
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meljul



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:30 pm    Post subject: What could he be hurting himself on??? Reply with quote

Our horse is somehow scraping his legs and we can't figure out how, nor is it healing.

It's been going on a few weeks now. Both joints in his front legs have scrapes on them. They are not deep, and just when we think they are healing over they are bloody the next morning. I have searched his pasture and barn/stable high and low for evidence of damage and have found nothing.

We had some spray from the vet that we have been using on him, but it doesn't seem to be working. Any ideas on how he could be doing this or how we can treat it quickly? Could he maybe be doing it just by laying down? We have racked our brains again and again. He used to be fine when we sprayed him, now he tries to get away when we spray. He'll walk ahead and back and into the corner when he is in his cross ties. Our poor horse, it's one thing after another.
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galadriel
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 113
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor baby! Sounds unpleasant. I hope you can get to the bottom of it soon.

Is he scraped in the front or back of the joints? Or the sides?

Where does he sleep?

If he tends to sleep on a rough surface, then he may be scraping himself as he lays down, as he moves around while lying down, or as he goes to stand up. (Grass, sand, or other soily surfaces may be rough--especially if the ground is colder and harder, and the grass has dried up for the cold season.)

If he is scraped behind the joints, he may be knocking his forelegs with his hindlegs as he lies down or stands up.

It sounds like it's gotten quite uncomfortable for him over time. I'd imagine that there's cumulative bruising along with the scraping. Is there any way that you can use a gentle ointment for a little while, since he's gotten sensitive about the spray? Something like triple antibiotic ointment (for people) has been very soothing to my horses in the past.

Perhaps you could even try a light protective bandage? Vetrap might be versatile enough to use over a joint area. Not tight; not a pressure bandage, wrapped just tightly enough to hold it in place.
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meljul



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's scraping the front of his joints on both legs. In his stall we have a bedding of woodchips. I'm not even sure if he lays down to sleep, I've never seen him do it, during the day he sleeps standing out in the sun. My instructor told me he won't lay down to sleep because his alone in the pasture and has to be 'on guard', is that true? Because of our open barn policy I'm not sure if he tries to lay down inside his stall or out in the barn itself. It's just wood out there, I haven't seen any evidence of him laying anywhere. It's so baffling. We are going to get some lightweight bandages for him to see if it'll get better.
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galadriel
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 113
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you know that he is scraping himself up somehow Sad On the front of both fetlock and knee sounds like it could well be from lying down on something abrasive.

Some horses never lay down, but most horses will. Horses need about 2 hours of deep sleep a day, which is best when they're laying down. Often they'll get this sleep in 20 or 30 minute naps, throughout the day or night. We usually find our horses lying down if we go out just before dawn, or close to midnight. Some days they'll have a midmorning nap if it's chilly out and the sun is nice. Whatever the case, horses usually wait until they feel very safe and very drowsy before they lie down.

A horse alone in a field may lie down, and you might just never see it, if it happens overnight or when no one is around. If he goes into his stall to lie down (because it feels safer/enclosed), then he could well be scraping himself on the wood chips. If there isn't anything else, then he *must* be doing it somehow--my best guess is while lying down and standing back up.

Perhaps this is only continuing because he's still got scabs from one instance. It might be that, if you can get these scabs to close over, he'll stop scraping himself up so. Good luck with the bandages.
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meljul



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I've never seen him lay down except to roll in the dirt. I do see him sleeping often in the day time. Usually after his morning and afternoon feeding he will sleep.

Yesterday he was pretty fussy about his legs. We can lift up his legs to get a better look and rub them and stuff but once we go near him with our spray stuff he gets fussy. Two steps forward-two steps back, everytime we went near him with the bottle. We did get his joints sprayed but we don't know if it'll help. He's pretty good at licking it off. Hopefully my dad will call the vet to come out and take a look.
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galadriel
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 113
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as I said, often a horse will not actually lie down until he feels completely secure, which might be the middle of the night. Some horses really don't lay down at all, but many simply wait until they are completely alone.

You know, it's possible that even lying down to roll might scrape up his legs. It doesn't matter why he goes down, just that he might be scraping himself while going down or getting back up.

If he's getting too fussy about the spray, perhaps there is something else you can use. A soothing ointment might do it.
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Shannyn



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Horn Lake, Mississippi

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi i definately know what your going through. First i have some questions for you.

How tall is your horse?
How much does he weigh?
How big his his stall?
What type of bedding do you use?
What type of bottom do you have to your stall(dirt,clay,believe it or not some barns have wood bottoms)
At last what kind of walls is his stall made out of? (some are wood, some brick etc)


If you can answer these i would appreciate it because i might can help you with this. Horses are shipped to me to train from all over the country and i have found that many tall or heavy horses in an uncomfortable stall size can lodge themselves and scrape themselves up in the stall. A stall should definately accomidate your horse. The worst what i call "Stall Scalling" is an 18.2 1/2H Trak gelding that was shipped to me for training and sale, infact i still have him. This gelding i immediately stalled in a 14X14 w/paddock thinking that would be big enough just for night time stabling. Boy what i wrong, the next morning he was all banged up and scraped up on his joints. I then put him in one of my birthing stalls 14X24. This helped ALOT. Due to the fact he is a show horse i cant leave him outside all the time, but i do make sure he has sufficient turnout time. Since i have moved him to the enormous stall, the "Stall Scalling" has been minor. I have also encountered this with horses that have the below body characteristics or conformation faults. Check out and walk your horses surroundings(stall) and ask yourself.. Is this big enough and sufficient for my horse? Also stand back and look at your horse's overall conformation and ask yourself.. "What conformation faults might cause this- his natural build". I hope this helps somehow. If his stall fits him and he doesnt have any listed conformation faults, he might just want more room. Some horses love lying near the wall, especially the far wall(since it is less light in there eyes, darker part of the stall, similar to how people turn away from light so they can go immediately back to sleep) so they may daze and sleep as they wish. Just see then if you might can get him a bigger stall if all possible. Hope this helps
Some causes of "Stall Scalling" that i have found
1. Height
2. Long Back
3. Very heavy(fat)
4. Not alot of slope to the shoulder
5. Short Neck
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Shannyn



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Horn Lake, Mississippi

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALSO i wanted to add, instead of spraying him quite so much right now just try hosing his wounds in warm water just to relax him, Then work your way down to rub his legs with your hands gentley. Talk to him and tell him its ok. Sometimes a theroputic change could help. If you cannot get to warm water try some of the below options. They might help.

Bring warm water from home if you live close- poor it in a deep bucket and place his leg in it, then rub gentley. Dont forget to talk to him. If you have owned him for a sufficient time your voice is his calming medicine. It is just as soothing as your rubbing, along with the warm water.

If you have a stove at your barn(since some people do, since some people boiled their horses oats for feeding etc)
Warm you some water and then poor it in a bucket. Please use caution and dont heat the water to much. Test by putting some drops on the back of your hand or touch the water with the back of your hand.

After he is relaxed, try spraying the medicine on a soft wash cloth or in your hands if safe to do so. Then rub in lightly, just like you were rubbing his legs before.
Hope this helps
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meljul



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How tall is your horse? 15.1

How much does he weigh? About 1100 lbs

How big his his stall? About 12x14, but it is not often that he is put into his stall. He has free range to go from outside to the barn to the stall.

What type of bedding do you use? Sawdust/wood chips

What type of bottom do you have to your stall(dirt,clay,believe it or not some barns have wood bottoms) We have a wood floor Embarassed

At last what kind of walls is his stall made out of? (some are wood, some brick etc) wood, again

He seems comfortable when he is in his stall. He has plenty of room to turn. I know what you mean about turning away from the light, usually when he's sleeping in either the barn or the stall itself, he is turned away from the light.

See my other post about him falling while sleeping..
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Shannyn



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Horn Lake, Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK ! Here we go! here is my prognosis Idea ! I hope this works Laughing ... Anyways first off i would perform the healing aids i described above for a few days - then i would go to a tack magazine (Stateline Tack or Dover Saddlery) just to name a couple to look for hock boots and knee boots. If your horse has scrapes on his legs i recommend soft pillow wraps with polo bandages. If you cannot find the hock/knee boots in the magazines go ebayin! Boy am i addicted to ebay.. but besides the point.. Get those ordered and get them to your horse. Keep doctoring your horse daily and keep the boots on your horse at all times until the abrasions have healed. At last ask your barn owner or manager if you can get rid of the wood floor! Shocked or move the horse to a stall without wood floors. He is laying against the wood chips and since they are ontop of the wood floor he is causing friction when he gets up. Immediately change bedding. I recommend "Equifresh" or some kind of pellet shavings. Not only do they save money but they become a fine powder, so much more comfortable! He is definately also laying away from light(very much against the wall) And i wouldnt be surprised if he is getting casted often. I hope someone lives there or checks on him at night? I have a 24 hour round clock check on my horses and you would be surprised at how many horses get casted and you dont realize it. Most uncast themselves but many esp BIG horses.. i have had to pull out away from the wall to get up. Try this and please let me know how it goes. If you have any questions please email me personally or post again. thanks! Good luck!
Shannyn
Welsh Equine Enterprises
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